Killing in the Name of God

a friend of mine and I were talking to an atheist. The convo started about people being gay, but then it took a twist. Barry, the athiest, tried to “box us in” by using the “killing in the name of God”  attack. This is how i handled the situtation. Also this post is up for debate and discussion. What do you think about what i wrote back with or about “Killing in the name of God”?

Barry first wrote: why is being gay a sin?

my friend’s response:

The reason that its a sin is because God has forbidden it, The Bible clearly points out that it is a sin to be gay. Homosexuals are one of the main reasons we have wide spread aids. Do you really think thats natural for men to do that to each other? or women?

Barry’s Reply : God said it was a sin to murder but you don’t mind murdering in the name of religion?

My response : actually i know that i haven’t murdered anyone and i think i can speak for my firend and say he hasnt either, so barry, when you say “you dont mind murdering in the name of religion” i am thinking you are talking about christians as a whole and more-likely the Catholic Church’s bloody past. Maybe even more likely you are talking about the “holy” crusades?

Well, if you murder in the name of religion, then u have done just that. However, the Bible and God commands “Thou shall not kill (murder)” (Exodus 20). If you kill in the name of religion, then you have done just that, but you have not killed in the name of God. God is against sin and murder is sin. For the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), however, some people do kill in the “name of God” or will sometimes say that God told them to kill people. Well lets look at both at these things one at a time.

Killing in the name of God : God said thou shall not kill….yet they do. Hum, well that is easily seen then that they know not what the Bible says, nor do they obey what it says. Barry, we have already talked about what the bible calls these kinds of people before, when we were talking about the “priests” you mentioned. These people are called Hypocrities. They claim to be something they are not. Christ, himself, says you shall know them by their fruits. Fruits in this stood for “their actions/what they do”.  So lets write what Christ said in plain english. You shall know them by (their acts) what they do. If i told you i wrote for the New York times, and you call the newspaper company and they tell you that they dont know of me and that i have never written for them before, you would see that i was lieing and being a hypocrite. Same thing here with christianity and people claiming to be it. If someone claims to be something, hold them up to the standard of what they are claiming to be. If they fail at it, then they airnt what they claim to be and you found yourself a false convert, hypocrite.

So if anyone kills in the “name of God”, then they are either very decieved, a false convert, or a hypocrite.   So lets not blaim the real ones for something a fake one did… Lets keep it respectful and not try to mix the two together….

Lets call the hypocrites for what they are and not add them to what christians really are.

“God told me to kill them” : The Bible is very clear that God said Thou shall not kill. However, people do and say God told them to do so. Well the bible says to test the spirits or voices you hear. (Many to claim to hear from God to kill people, say they heard voices in their heads.)

1 John 4:1-6 says this : Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Here we see that the voices/spirits must be in agreement with the Bible, or it isnt of God. That those who listen to the voices and do the spirit(s) will is a worldly person. So those who kill people and murder them because “God” told them too are not christian but hypocrites and worldly men and women.

So this would point that christians dont do these things, and that those who do, airnt christian but mislead and/or are hypocrites.

Hope i have shown you the diffence so that you will never confuse the two in your mind ever again,

— Joe

Jesus Christ is the 10 Commandments

Hey Evangelist Joe,

 

I want to know your take on I think Romans 4 or 8 where it says “we have been released from the law that once bound us and we are dead to the law” and “the law is not for the righteous but for the ungodly” wouldn’t that mean it is for the unbeliever and not for the believer or righteous I think in 1 Timothy I can’t look it up because I am texting and combining wheat lol. Not for argument sake I really want to know your take on it. So what i am asking is How can the law be for the Christian when we are supposed to be dead to it and released from it?

 

From, @#R%$%#$@

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Dear @#R%$%#$@,

 

Thank you sir, for giving me this moment to explain ‘how I take’ Romans 7:6 and the rest of the scripture around it. Let me first say that this verse states the consequences of the gospel, in distinction from the effects of the Law. Notice i said the effects of, not just ‘the law’. However, to keep in context i posted from verse 6 down to the end of the chapter. I would like to bring your attention to verses 22-23 as well along side of verse 6.

 

Verse 6  : But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Verse 22  : For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.   

Notice here sir, that Paul is addressing two laws but the same one at the same time. The ‘Law of God according to the inward man’ and the other law, ‘law of sin’.  But yet, he is addressing the laws of the Jews given to them by God the Father in Exodus. But what are those laws found in Exodus; the 10 commandment, and the 10 commandments ONLY!

 

(Side-note : we will also see the rules of procedure and rules of order for holy days [holidays] in exodus too)

 

If you have studied anything about Jews, their laws, and Christ, you would know that the Jewish leaders added some 300+ laws to those first 10. So here we already see a setting that is making two kinds of law from the original, God’s and man’s. Now, lets jump forward a few years to Christ. One of the main things any 1^st  yr theology student will tell you about the first 4 books of the NT is that Christ is quoted several times saying ” Verily, Verily, You have heard it said (then some OT verse and how the pharisees have taught it) but I say (the OT verse again but how God intended it to be viewed and/or used)”  When Christ said ” you have heard it said…but i say…” He did not dismiss the verse, or delete the verse, or call it heresy. Instead, He showed how man, with man laws, had twisted its meaning and then He showed how we are to actually view it from God’s view.

 

Christ said he came to not destroy the law, but to fulfill it. To fulfill, you act and use whatever you are fulfilling! Christ pointed back to the 10 commandments and that was it, He showed us that the 300+ rules the pharisee and others added was a law of death and a law of sin. God did not care if we spit in the dirt on a Saturday and it made mud….that wasn’t rebelling against “resting on the sabbath”. That was simply getting extra water and such out of your mouth.

 

The 10 commandments in Exodus and the holy days all pointed to Christ. They showed what to look for, the resume, if you will, of the coming Messiah. The Jews missed this and thought it just a way of living ones life. They did not even know it was a message pointing out who the messiah was. Christ had to even point this out to his disciples and finally, after a lot of correction teachings from Christ, they finally realized he was the Son of God when peter made his famous revelation about Christ being the Son of God. Then and there, Peter came to understand the difference between the two laws. We see this by comparing Peter’s life before this revelation and then after!  🙂

 

Paul, when talking about the law of sin, the law of death, he is talking about the law man made from God’s 10 laws. That law didn’t point to Christ, it pointed to rules and regulations for the point of being able to call oneself holier then his brother. This law when added to the 10 commandments (b/c man’s laws did include the 10 commandments) was the “another law i see in my members”. 

 

The “God’s Law of the inward man”, is just the 10 commandments and the 10 commandments only. Christ filled that ‘resume’ and proved to be the 10 commandments. He didn’t follow them, He is them. They are He, He is them…lol…. i hope you see my point. Scripture say that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, and if that is so and the 10 commandments are Him and He is them, then they are the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

Now to your Romans 7:6 and 1 Timothy question : “Wouldn’t that mean it is for the unbeliever and not for the believer or righteous”.

Now ‘the ending’ of my answer lol :  yes and no, and here is why. Before Christ came to earth and died on the Cross (Cross representing the Old Testament Law of Punishment for sin) and the Resurrection ( New Testament of Grace for those who are dead in sin) we have to look at how the 10 commandments were meant to be viewed. We have already discussed that they pointed to Christ but we haven’t discussed the punishment side of it.

We know that God the Father is very protective over Himself, being that one of the first 10 commandments is that you can not have any other god before Him, and that the unforgivable sin is mockery of the Holy Spirit. Since God does not change and the 10 commandments is Christ, we know that God is very protective over the 10 commandments but why?

Because any thing less then what they were, would show and point to a fake Christ, a lie of what actually is. God the Father was so harsh in punishment, ‘death’, b/c He was saying anything else then perfect is not God, and not following the commandments points to an imperfect god and that is a lie and a sin. Sin equals death, so the braking of the commandment it pointed to sin and not Christ, and in essences said that Christ was sin….see the lie?

That is why all punishment from Father God was just, holy, and right and we can only agree. But what about when Christ came to earth? Christ is the 10 commandments, so He is the law, the law of God of the inward man. He did not brake the commandments, he kept them all, that’s why he was sinless. Since He kept the laws, no punishment is to be dealt out on Him. So we see the 10 commandments now, as still kept in perfection, without flaw or blemish, to this day since Christ’s birth!!! That just makes me want to dance! To denie the 10 commandments is to denie Christ and what He did on the Cross, Christ’s blood covered the cross and remember the cross stood for the punishment, the past brakes of the commandments were paid for in blood and with the cross,  the old testament, being covered in Blood, it was fulfilled.

The New Covenant did not take place until 3 days later when Christ arose. The Risen part is what started the New Covenant. We are to look at the 10 commandments as Christ. He set us free from the man’s law and the punishment of sin, death. The resurrection, the new covenant, gives us life and life more abundantly. Christ said, I come to give you life and life more abundantly….. not I am giving life and life more abundantly…because none of that mattered until his resurrection. Christ is for both the lost and the Saved. The 10 commandments to the lost are still under old covenant because if they die without Christ, their sins give them the second death, however, with the 10 commandments ‘the Christ’, we have life more abundantly that we are saved and we are dead, the ‘Sir’ and Joe are dead…its Christ talking to Christ in the Father’s eyes! (How amazing is that! This too, makes me want to just dance in joy!)

So the 10 commandments are still for the lost in the fact that they point them to Christ, but the 10 commandments is no longer in effect for us in this manner; it is our Salvation, it is Christ and He is our savior, so as the Christian, the 10 commandments that point to a messiah has been released, b/c with that viewing comes the judgment, the punishment for not following it, however, the 10 commandments for the Christian is the fulfilled side, the ‘It is Finished” side! Hallelujah!

So the 10 commandments if for both the lost and saved, the righteous and unrighteous, but different depending on which side you are on (lost or saved).

So in conclusion, you can not dismiss the 10 commandments in Exodus as heresy or wrong or evil or bad because even Romans 7:12 claims the law to be holy and good. Christ is Holy, Just, and good and He is not wrong, heresy, or evil/bad. So to claim the 10 commandments as so is to claim Christ as so. Maybe now you see why I take a stance against those who say the 10 commandments are law and law equals death so abandon it and the old testament. What they are saying about Christ (the law of God = the 10 commandments = Christ) is dead wrong and it is heresy!

 

– Evangelist Joe Collins